[东亚研究所线上研讨会] 民主合作系列 8. 审视亚洲民主国家的政治资金制度

YouTube 링크 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V1IcO0hO5E

不当的政治资金制度导致政治腐败和政治资金滥用……如何改革以提高政治资金制度的透明度和公正性？

东亚研究所（所长孙烈）作为亚洲民主研究网络（ADRN）的秘书处，举办了第八期“民主合作”线上研讨会系列——“审视亚洲民主国家的政治资金制度”。在本次会议上，ADRN成员分享了对巴基斯坦、印度尼西亚、台湾和马来西亚政治资金制度的研究，并讨论了实现透明和廉洁的政治资金的改革任务。

• 日期：2021年4月20日（周二）15:30 – 17:00（韩国时间）
• 演讲者：Aira Azhari（IDEAS民主与治理部门经理）、Ahmed Bilal Mehbob（PILDAT创始人兼首席执行官）、Sri Nuryanti（印度尼西亚科学院研究员）、Chin-en Wu（中央研究院政治学研究所副研究员）
• 사회자: Aasiya Riaz(Joint Director, PILDAT)

视频脚本

hello and welcome uh to this adrn online webinar on the system of political finance in asian democracies my name is asiya ryaz i am from pakistan and i work with pakistan institute of legislative development and transparency on behalf of adrn and east asia institute it is my pleasure to welcome you all in this very important conversation on the role of money or the system of political finance that we have across asian democracies that we are discussing today the term of political finance is used to describe all funds that are

raised and spent for political purposes they're not just what candidates spend in electoral campaigns but it's also funds that political parties spend um in running electoral campaigns uh these are uh funds that political parties have in their annual budgets these are the this is money which which they raise for different purposes to to run political activity which is why there's a sort of a larger term than just the campaign finance what we're trying to do today is trying to understand what kind of a system of political

finance um is is necessary uh to use um to make sure that there is level playing field for citizens in every democracy that there is money available uh which is um which is transparent which is uh which is effectively regulated um and that does not result in any kind of um influencing or sabotaging public agenda and democratic governance i'm joined today by experts from pakistan mr ahmed bilal mahboob who's the president of pildat from indonesia shri nuriyanti she's she's joined us from she's a researcher at center for

political studies at indonesian institute of sciences jakarta mr chen and wu he's associate research fellow at institute of political science um in taiwan and with ira azeri who's managing democracy and governance unit ideas in malaysia together with these panelists we'll we'll try and understand what is the system of political finance in each one of these countries how does this how does it differ from you know between country to country how effective is it on what kind of reforms are actually needed in the

system of political finance in each of these countries that we're discussing what we would like to focus on through this particular webinar is that we talk about not just the legal framework which is regulating political finance or rule of money in politics and and how effectively it's implemented but what kind of oversight mechanism exists uh whether there's compliance whether there's transparency and if there are any required reforms in each country that these panelists and these experts believe should be carried out um

with this i would like to request um our first presenter the panelist from pakistan ahmed bilal mehboob who's who's who's been working in this area who's president of pildat he's the one who created the organization which has been working in the era of democracy and improving democratic governance in pakistan for nearly two decades uh over to you amit bilal my boobs what is the system of political finance in pakistan thank you very much asia and thank you very much east asia institute and adrn for organizing a discussion on a subject

which is so important to all democracies but especially asian democracies some of whom are struggling to improve their democratic system as you very rightly said political finance is a very important element in keeping the democratic systems safe from vested interests especially the decision making in democracy safe from big money and vested interests so therefore i look forward to sharing some thoughts uh some features of political finance system in pakistan and learning from my co-panelists from

other countries and hopefully this will help us in improving our respective political finance systems in pakistan political finance system is basically enshrined in our constitution and in more detail in our elections act which was passed in 2017 in its present form so these are the two legal documents uh which describe the political finance system of pakistan election commission of pakistan is the focal institution which has the responsibility and which has basically the powers to monitor the political finance in the country

and to take actions uh wherever there is a violation of the electoral laws of the political finance laws in the country so basically it's the election commission an election commission is an independent uh institution it's a five-membered body and all five members are appointed for a five-year term it is appointed by a bipartisan process the prime minister and leader of the opposition in the national assembly they have to agree on appointment of the election commission and this particular feature has further enhanced the

independence of election commission our political finance system uh basically if i look at it that it's a three-pronged political finance system first entity on which political finance is focused and focused in a big way is the candidates for the national and provincial legislatures and also of the local government officials those elected officials all of them they are the focus of a political finance system and probably the most elaborate provisions of the political finance system are related to the candidates each

candidate has to submit its statement of assets and liabilities for the past one year to the election commission at the time of submitting its nomination papers so that is the first financial statements which it is making public through the election commission and then along with this statement it has to submit a very elaborate affidavit it's a 23-point affidavit but all of them do not relate to the political finance but those elements which relate to political finance which each candidate has to declare for

example they have to declare what is the tax which they have paid over the past three years so they have to give details of all the taxes whether it is income tax or it is agriculture income tax or whatever tax what has been submitted it has to give details for the past three years it has to also give details of the outstanding loans if any which it has to pay to financial institutions it has also to declare if it has defaulted on any government dues or utility bills it has to also declare that if it has

any businesses if it owns any businesses any companies it must give details a list of those companies and it also must give details of its foreign travel in the past three years so this detail is probably needed that how much money that person has been spending so it's a very elaborate uh affidavit which provides a lot of information about the financial dealings of financial standing of the candidate and one more thing they have to also declare that how much money if that candidate has paid to the

political party as a donation or anything else and how much money if he has received ever received from that political party of which he's a candidate so these are the elaborate information which a candidate has to declare then there's a spending limit for each candidate for example a candidate for the national assembly which is the our popularly elected house of parliament now recently we have enhanced the spending limit to 4 million pakistani rupees which roughly converts into 26 000 us dollars so they

this is the spending limit they cannot spend more than that and for the provincial assembly half of it which is the 13 000 us dollars so that is spending limit and this spending includes all the money which whether the candidate himself spends herself spends or some supporters or political party or anyone spends but lately this spending limit law has been somewhat diluted if somebody spends money to favor the candidate without his permission her permission then that money will not be counted towards the

spending limit it's a kind of a i think loophole which provides uh opportunity for people to spend more than the spending limit the second important focus and by the way each candidate has to open a separate bank account through which only through that account the candidate has can spend or receive donations and each candidate after the election within 30 days of the election has to spend the details of the election expenses to the election commission and foreign funding to the candidates are not allowed

foreign funding is defined very elaborately in our laws whether you receive money from a foreign individual or you receive from a foreign corporate entity or from a foreign government it is not allowed to be received by a candidate for any political office the second area of focus for our political finance system is the legislator and here legislators members of the provincial assembly our national assembly are senate they have to submit every year a statement of assets and liabilities which is again

a very elaborate document and it not only gives assets of the cap of the legislator himself or herself but spouse and the dependents and the children immediate family whatever assets and liabilities they have they have to be put together in that document and this has to be declared every year by the election commission an election commission declares it through a government notification and if the legislators do not submit this statement in time then the election commission can suspend and it does suspend the

membership of these legislators third element of our political finance system is political parties and again a very elaborate system of political finance has been put in place each political party has to submit its annual statement of its audited accounts to the election commission and that statement of accounts carries the income sources of income the donations which it has received and the list of the donors and the spending which it has entered and the assets which the political party has accumulated so

foreign funding to political parties is not allowed not in any form and it's again very in detail elaborated in the election laws you cannot receive even a single dollar from a foreign source but pakistanis who are living abroad whom we call overseas pakistanis they are not considered a foreign source of funding if that person has pakistani nationality has a pakistani identification card that person even if that person is living abroad as a dual nationality can still fund political parties and there's no upper

limit on donations to political parties and political parties do not have any election spending limit unlike individual candidates political parties can spend any amount and corporate funding is allowed in election law but corporate laws the company act does not allow funding to political parties so there's a kind of contradiction in our laws which needs to be resolved lastly i would like to just very quickly mention some important reforms which we think are needed in political reform system of pakistan

as you might have noticed we have a very robust and quite detailed legal framework of political finance system in pakistan but unfortunately the system of enforcement of these laws is not as robust so therefore i think the system of enforcement needs to be improved and improved drastically and first point in that is that the election commission of pakistan which is the entity responsible for monitoring political finance for enforcement of political finance laws political election commission must

enhance its capacity especially that capacity which deals with political finance it must have financial professionals it must have auditors it must have accountants chartered accountants and it has sufficient number of people who can at least a small portion of these statements which are submitted every year should be able to securitize so i think first important point is that election commission which has a very i think weak capacity at the moment it must improve its capacity by enhancing its uh human resource

and uh not only in terms of quantity but in terms of quality also another important uh thing is that the uh like we have the spending limit of uh candidates i think political parties spending limit should also be fixed political parties now are every year we are saying that they are spending much more money than they used to spend in the past and most of this money is spent on the electronic media individual candidates do not spend so much money on electronic media so if you leave give a carter blanchett

to political party to spend as much as they can and as much they want that will probably defeat the purpose of political finance checks and balances so i think there must be a political there must be a gap on the spending of political uh parties and legislators statements which they submit every year although government of pakistan election commission issues that in the form of a in the form of a government circular but i think it doesn't reach people the spirit of the declarations it that people it should be

very transparent anyone should be able to see it should be easily uh access that so i think election commission should put this document on their website so that everybody can reach it and lastly i think we should find some way when we are putting so many restrictions on political parties and on their finance and campaign funding i think we should give some serious thought about legitimate funding of political parties and i think we should look at the possibility of public funding of political parties

so that political parties are not dependent on vested interest for their funds and i think that's an area which we can see look at the example of germany for example which has probably a very elaborate public funding system and i think developing countries like ours should look into the possibility of public funding thank you very much thank you very much mr mehboob uh mr mabu was presenting the case of pakistan um and he mainly said that we have a very robust law or a legal framework for political

finance which is there in the country but um how effectively it is managed is where we need more and more support and that political parties must also have some kind of a limit um according to which they can spend money um and also that pakistan should consider a system of public funding of political parties as well um with that i'll i'll now move to indonesia and i'd like to invite sri nuriyanthi who i already introduced research researcher at center for political studies at the indonesian institute of sciences

she just also told us that she's served as the commissioner election commissioner of indonesia as well over to you sri nuriyanthi um good afternoon to everyone i would like to uh thanks uh aie and also adrn for for the uh for hosting this webinar i am very thankful and i'm from the indonesian institute of sciences today i would like to talk about the system and governance of the political party finance in indonesia hang on so um to be the political party actually in indonesia the law stipulated that which the political

party should have the uh legal entity so it they have to show that they have a legal status and should be registered at the ministry of law and human right they supposed to have branches of the committees they have to have memberships offices and also they have to uh to set up an account number so this account number is specifically under the name of political parties so not on behalf of political party uh this account number uh can be cannot be in the name of uh someone's or the leader of political parties so it

should be under name of the political party and they have also to show the first default deposit so the uh the there are three main research concerns of this study first forces on provisions of the regulation second will be on supervisions and reporting the third will be on evaluations and proposal for reform on provisions of the regulations on financial sources actually all political party can have three sources of political uh political party finance first they could come from internal sources of political party

finance the uh secondly they have they also can have the external sources of political party finance and the third one they could also get the government assistance of the political party finance on the governance of the political party finance uh in our law regulates that the organizations and politic and office operation need should be spirited from campaign finance and reports of the campaign finance especially scrutinized by public accountant on internal sources of political party finance it can be in the form of money coming

from the membership fee and it could be in kind of goods any kind of goods that can be converted into amounts of money and also in terms of services include our time advertisement etc the external sources of finance it could be in the form of donation in this case the individual and business entity donation stipulated at versus number 35 of the law number two 2011 on political party finance stipulated that political party may obtain donation from the following categories first they could come from individual

members of a political party where the membership is regulated uh in the political party manifesto second uh it coming uh from uh the individual who are not members of a political party but uh it has limitation at most uh 1 billion rupiah or roughly equal to 770 thousand nine point nine nineteen as per 22nd february where uh the report is made uh per person within one year budget and then uh if coming from companies or business entities they have limitation that the political party can have at most

7 billion 500 million rupiah or roughly equal to 531 000.9 as per 22nd february conversion rate per company or per business entity within one year fiscal there are also three interconnectedness uh interconnected regulation to make better accountability of the political party finance therefore in indonesia we do have at least three uh two laws and one government regulation law number two 2017 on election is also regulates that all political parties should establish their own account for political party finance law number

two 2011 on political party also similarly regulates the same thing and government regulation number one 2018 on managing political party finance actually stipulated that all political party finance governance should be managed through a mechanism that shows the accountability and responsiveness of the use of the money there are at least problems that we face in indonesia in terms of funding sources that political party is hard to collect membership fee because of a membership fee something that have to

be paid by each person who is the member of the political party but political party complained that they could uh could not collect the membership fee from their members other sources of political party atms can be found by asking the legislators who are in in power or elites of the political party who are in power to give some amount of money to political party this is something that should also comply with the regulation but there is also a tendency where uh it also uh due to the organizing the political parties

needs a lot of money therefore they have enterpreneur ties that happening in organizing the political party and because of that tendency it's also becoming that political party sometimes showing that it is more personalistic based in in term of access towards the report of the political party finance sometimes people or public have uneasy access towards it unless you have to contact and to contact some person or you contact the election commission office and in terms of this we do have uh money disclosure but

to some of the democratic how to say uh democratic intellectuals activists they say it as more in a formal way rather than in showing the uh the real money that or the real financial that operated by political party so in the regulation we also have the supervisions and reporting in supervision uh it in term of the using of political party finance it should be 60 percent allocated for political education and 40 percent should be allocated for operational activities in reporting uh it should be separated between

organizational operational needs on an office supply and should be separated from campaign finance therefore we can see that uh how much money allocated for organization operational activities and how much money that uh used for campaign finance on political education political education as in the law article number 2034 of law number two 2011 uh is referred to depending the value of the four pillars of the nation and state which are five pillars uh the constitution uh year 1945 bine katung or united diversity

principles and the unitary state of indonesia and secondly political education is also has to understand the rights and obligations of the citizens of indonesia in developing ethnic and political culture and the third political education is should be relating with recruitment of together or political party members that then by entire uh structured and the sustainability plan on government assistance as i said earlier on uh it is based on the law number two 2011 and law number seven 2017.

this uh the government assistance is should be accounted should be accounted and it is based on the number of votes they gain during the election but again the government assistant is considered too small so therefore later on i can show you that this is something that arising the reform on reporting uh the operational needs and office supply must be separated from campaign and on scrutinizing the financial of the political party if the your political party got a government assistant therefore it will be scrutinized by

state financial scrutiny and campaign finance scrutinized by public accountant offices on evaluation and proposal for reform as i said earlier on in terms of effectivity of the regular regulations implementation it should be enforced by independent body otherwise it will be in more informal way formalistic way rather than in more substantial way and on government assistance it needs to be increased and in term of usage of the funding campaign activists should be closely related to political education therefore

in campaign activities though you need to ask people to vote for your political party but it's supposed to have political education sense and also value in it so in term of reporting it must be spirited and it must be a balance in terms of portions allocated for political education and of his need therefore as i said earlier it regulates that 60 percent is for political education and office need only allocated up to 40 percent and also it should be balanced in terms of public and uh pre-heart sources i think

uh that's all uh that i can share for uh today we can have discussion later thank you very much thank you very much sri nuriyanthi i'll now go to mr shin and woo who's an associate research fellow at the institute of political science at academia seneca taiwan over to you chin and woo for the for the system of political finance in taiwan mr chenonvu as if we can start your presentation maybe he needs to unmute himself uh he is unmuted uh can you hear us we can actually see your screen we can see your presentation

or we can't hear you yeah we're unable to hear you so can you hear me now yes we can okay i'm sorry uh so i'm going to share the file with you again okay so i'm delighted to share my observation about the political finance in taiwan and basically there is a single law political donation act that regulate the political finance system in taiwan it's passed in 2004 before that is a chaotic situation there's no regulation and in this law individual and the pilot political party civil organization and

company can make contribution but they must go through the designated accounts after being approved by the control union which is the ambush men in taiwan and there is a period that can people can make contribution for press for presidential candidate is one year before their 10-year end and for legislative years it's only 10 months so it's not a long period in taiwan not like in the united states you can receive a donation anytime and there is a contribution limit just like in other country and we have

a cap on the amount of money individual and business and the civil association can contribute to individual candidate party and the political association and also we have another upper limit on the total amount of duration a donation contributed to individual candidate different party or political association so a single like a single company he can only donate certain amount of money to all the candidates he wants to contribute so to reduce their a single person or single company's influence on

politics and politics and of course there are some types of enterprise that are not allowed to make donation the first is public enterprises and the manufacturer that have uh contract with government and those prof uh business they are in accumulative deficit and business operated by political party those companies are not allowed to make donation and also there's a punishment most of violations are subject to fine but only a small fraction of violation will be sentenced to prison like accepting money from china

under receiving money not through and destinated account and but the consultant in taiwan do not have enough manpower to check so almost no politician resigned because of forced declaration and also the the controverian has a website and he need to publish the older political donation all the information and so it can easily look at it online for foreign donations we have a special regulation on this uh um like so people and the jurisdiction per judicial person association companies in foreign country

people's republic of china hong kong and macau are not allowed to make uh make contribution and also although we have upper limit on the spent on the contribution but we have no upper limit on expenditure so there's no upper limit on the total amount that the candidate party or political group can receive and also there is no limit on the total amount candidate or parties can spend in elections the unspent contribution can be kept by candidates for four years if they they can and they can use it for

连任，如果他们不使用，剩余的需要退还给政府。但您提到人们和公司可以捐赠的金额是有限制的。但在某些情况下，大公司拥有多个子公司，它们会通过子公司进行捐款，每个子公司都有不同的名称。所以，如果您看公司名称，会看到不同的公司，但实际上它们属于同一集团。所以大公司会这样做。

他们通常会试图向不同的政党和不同的候选人捐款，以与所有人交朋友。所以他们用这种方式捐款。对于不正确的申报，会有惩罚。如果您进行虚假申报，将被处以一定数额的新台币罚款。如果您在未注册指定账户的情况下接收捐款，将被判处最高三年监禁。去年我们通过了《反渗透法》，该法特别针对...

旨在阻止中国大陆的渗透，并增加了对来自台湾以外的人进行政治捐款和竞选捐款的处罚。根据这项法律，任何从中国接收金钱并进行政治捐款的人将被判处最高五年监禁，并处以最高1000万新台币的罚款。因此，它增加了对接收或帮助向国内候选人捐款的人的处罚，他们的处罚有所增加。但另一件事是...

总是存在人们收到钱然后会为捐款人做事的问题，并且总是有可能直到利益成为贿赂。因此，《反腐败法》有实际的惩罚。但提供加密货币很难，特别是对于议员来说，因为议员有权质询官员、通过法律和预算，但他们不直接执法。所以实际上，有时很难...

让法官说议员倡导某事是在为特定公司提供特殊优惠。因此，台湾在民主化后有几个涉及行业协会捐款的案件，司法程序耗时数年，几乎所有案件都以无罪告终。去年仍有一些立法者卷入案件，但他们仍在司法审查中，仍在法律程序中。还有一个问题，因为今天我们...

正在谈论竞选财务法，实际上它与几项应予扩展的法律有关，以使竞选财务真正发挥作用。其中一项是游说法。台湾的游说法非常强大，许多游说政府的人没有注册。因此，自通过以来，台湾只有大约400多名游说者。所以，大多数与立法者联系以寻求某些东西的人只是不...

注册，但没有人知道。政府不对那些游说但不注册的人处以罚款。这是我最后想提到的幻灯片，即党产问题。国民党是旧的威权政权，威权政党，它仍然是现在的主要政党之一，但国民党过去拥有巨额党产，这使得竞争环境不公平。国民党可以在每次选举中捐赠大量资金，或向其自身...

候选人捐赠大量资金，即使他收到的公众捐款较少，但由于其党产，他总体上可以比政治对手花费更多。2016年政党轮替后，几乎所有国民党的资产都被冻结，因为民进党认为它们不合法，并且候选人以其他非法方式获得了这些资产，但诉讼仍在进行中，所以我们必须等待并看结果。谢谢，非常感谢陈先生和吴先生...

介绍了台湾政治财务制度的案例，它被有效利用的程度，以及法律体系的有效性。我现在想转向我们来自马来西亚的发言人，他将与我们讨论马来西亚的政治财务制度案例，它与其他国家有何不同。管理思想、民主和治理部门的米塞拉·阿泽里，请发言，泽里先生，谢谢西亚，也感谢EAI举办本次网络研讨会。

今天。我没有幻灯片，但我会与您分享我和我的同事撰写的草稿论文，并从中分享一些观点。让我们看看。我认为你们可以看到我的屏幕。马来西亚的政治融资案例，我认为可能与我们的一些邻国和其他一些国家略有不同，主要是因为马来西亚没有规范政治融资的立法。马来西亚唯一与...

金钱和政治有关的立法是限制候选人在竞选期间在州和联邦层面的支出金额。但没有任何规定可以限制政党从何处获取资金，或如何使用或不使用这些资金。所以，这就是马来西亚的情况。我选择关注屏幕上的四个要点，即马来西亚商业与政治的联系，特别是通过政府相关公司；民选代表的作用...

在我们民主体制内；当前的政治融资生态系统及其后果；以及我将提出的改善我们现有体系的建议。因此，马来西亚商业与政治的联系，我认为马来西亚并非唯一一个商业与政治之间存在密不可分联系的国家。在马来西亚，长期以来一直存在政治参与和干预商业的历史。当统治马来西亚60年的政党...

年直到2018年，即马来民族统一机构（UMNO），拥有庞大的商业网络和公司。马来西亚还有所谓的政府相关公司（GLC），这些公司旨在服务重要的社会目标，并应独立、透明和负责任地运营。但许多这些公司被政党用于其自身的融资目的，并且还存在...

过去的腐败案件。在过去几年中，政界人士和与政治有关的人士被任命到GLC的董事会和管理层，这极大地损害了它们的独立性。政治任命也被用作奖励党员的手段，在选举中获胜。因此，这种政治干预导致了政治和公司的货币化，支持执政党的公司获得了...

更容易获得政府补助金和合同。因此，我稍后将详细阐述一些建议，以改善现状。其次，我想强调民选代表在马来西亚民主体制内的作用。在马来西亚，我们既有州级议会，也有国家级议会。通常在选举中，马来西亚选民会投票给州议会的代表和国家议会的代表。与许多其他国家类似，我强调民选代表的作用主要是因为马来西亚的许多政治家认为他们需要筹集大量资金并拥有大量现金，因为他们的选民期望如此。例如，如果您想在您的选区保持选举上的可行性，您需要能够提供现金和许多其他形式的实物捐助给您的选民。

这加剧了政治融资问题，因为许多政治家感到有压力要筹集巨额资金，因为选民与民选代表之间存在这种客户关系。因此，有几个原因。首先，我认为马来西亚的州福利体系在某种程度上已经崩溃，许多马来西亚人无法再依靠国家提供福利和基本商品。因此，这项职责就转移到了他们的议员或他们的...

这加剧了政治融资的问题，因为许多政治家在这种选民与民选代表之间的客户主义关系下，感到有压力去筹集巨额资金。原因有几个，首先，我认为马来西亚的国家福利体系在某种程度上已经崩溃，许多马来西亚人已无法再依靠国家提供福利和基本商品，因此这项职责就转移到了他们的议员或他们的代表身上。

州议员。但这实际上不是他们的职责，他们应该是制定法律和辩论政策的政策制定者。所以，这是一个原因。另一个原因是，我认为马来西亚社会在很大程度上仍然是封建的，许多马来西亚人仍然期望他们的民选代表解决问题，并在他们遇到麻烦时提供援助。因此，这再加上缺乏立法，意味着许多议员和许多州议员...

试图从可疑来源获取金钱来满足其中一些需求。因此，整个体系的问责制和透明度非常低。我现在将详细阐述当前的政治融资生态系统及其后果。我选择强调马来西亚当前体系的六个关键问题：政治货币化、资金获取不平等、派系林立、秘密资金、执法不力以及制度薄弱。因此，我认为在座的许多人可能...

熟悉我们的前总理纳吉布·拉扎克以及2016年（如果我没记错的话）爆发的1MDB丑闻，该丑闻导致他在2018年大选中失利。这场丑闻是马来西亚政治融资体系如何变得非常腐败的完美例证。因为据称，他个人银行账户中的26亿令吉来自沙特阿拉伯的一位王子，用于2018年大选。这只是该体系被滥用的一个例子。

就在刚才，我提到有一项法律规范政治竞选支出，即1954年的《选举犯罪法》。联邦议会选举为20万令吉，州立法议会为10万令吉，地方当局为1万令吉，地方议会为3千令吉。许多人认为这些限额实际上非常不切实际，因为没有人只花费20万令吉用于国家级选举。所以一些...

提出的改革表示，这个数额实际上需要提高。而且，设定如此低的上限实际上并不能解决问题，这意味着金钱将转入地下，人们实际上将花费更多并且不申报。所以，一些改革实际上提到需要改变这一点。政治政党之间也存在资金不平衡，因为马来西亚政治政党的性质...

存在着主导商业网络的庞大政党，以及没有获得这些资源的小政党。因此，在获取资金方面也存在不平等问题，这就是为什么需要一项法案，以便能够建立一个更公平的竞争环境。因此，我提出的一些建议是首先制定一项政治融资法案。我们应该从那里开始，因为马来西亚目前甚至没有任何立法。因此，法案的内容是学者和公民社会多年来一直在讨论的问题。例如，应该要求对政党账目进行审计，并将财务报告公之于众。应该有明确的处罚机制和资金限制，以及禁止外国资金，正如我认为我们其他一些小组成员已经提到的。其次，引入基于选票和种子基金的直接公共资助。我认为我们其他一些小组成员也提到了公共资助模式。

这可以提高透明度，并促进政党内部的良好治理。因此，公共资助有几种方式可以实现。有直接和间接的。例如，间接是指国家为政党进行政策研究等提供资金。直接公共资助是指用于一般竞选活动等。我将直接进入第三点。第三点是间接公共资助，正如我提到的，用于政策研究和其他...

这可以提高政治党派的透明度并促进善治。因此，公共资助可以通过几种机制进行，有直接和间接的。例如，间接资助是指国家为党派进行政策研究等提供资金，而直接公共资助是指用于大选竞选活动等。我将直接讲第三点，第三点是间接公共资助，如我所提到的，用于政策研究和其他方面。

目的。所以，这只是我从马来西亚案例中选取的一些问题。目前情况并不理想。有一项政治融资的法案草案实际上正在起草中，但目前仍在内阁手中，似乎没有政治意愿将其提交议会。所以我认为这是马来西亚公民社会目前的主要障碍，即让这项法律得以提交。谢谢，非常感谢。谢谢。

非常感谢。您对马来西亚的现状进行了非常有用的介绍。感谢您确定了您认为马来西亚需要的改革，并且您正确地指出了其他亚洲民主国家也认为自己应该拥有的东西。我没有来自与会者的提问，也没有在线问题列表。所以，也许我会逐一回到小组成员那里，问他们是否有问题或评论，然后我们可以...我将按我邀请大家发言的顺序进行。

首先是陈先生，如果您对其他小组成员有任何问题或评论，然后我们可以...谢谢。是的，我有一些问题，特别是发现印度尼西亚的演讲非常吸引人，至少是关于政治政党被要求将其60%的资金用于政治教育的方面。我认为，如果我理解正确的话，他们被要求将40%用于...

他们的运营活动，60%用于政治教育。所以我想知道这是否正确？如果我理解正确的话。其次，他们为这种政治教育做了什么？是否有课程？是否有像德国那样与政党有关联的政治学院？它是如何进行的？因为60%是一笔巨款，我必须说，如果它是法律的一部分，并且她有法律的英文翻译，我请求她发送一份副本。

因为这是我们真正想在我国效仿的，因为我们确实需要政治教育，但遗憾的是，法律中没有这样的规定。好的，您还提到政府会根据政党获得的选票提供援助，但您也提到金额非常少。那么这种政府援助的公式是什么？为什么您认为金额很少？您想如何改进它？

您想如何改进它？这是我对印度尼西亚的问题。如果下一轮有机会提问，我可能会问其他人问题，但主要是我对我的印度尼西亚同事的问题。谢谢。斯里，如果您能回答，并且如果您还有其他问题，请回答。好的，谢谢。艾哈迈德·比拉尔·梅赫布布先生。在印度尼西亚，是的，您说得对，规定规定政治政党的财务的60%应该用于...

政治教育。因此，它包括政治政党如何招募最优秀的成员作为候选人，以填补立法者候选人资格，以及填补政治精英候选人资格。因此，政治教育的形式是制定规章制度、进行定期培训、制定适用于其培训的定期课程、内部培训。因此，在这个课程中...

实际上，他们必须深化五大支柱的价值，并深化关于政党应如何运作的知识。此外，它还包括为竞选活动提供资金，就社会关系过程、社会化过程而言，而不是竞选活动，而是为了其政治意识形态。例如，一个政党必须召开全国会议，并在全国会议上花费一些...

时间，以便他们的意识形态能够被所有成员充分理解。在改革方面，如今所有能够将其成员安置在国会议员中的政党，他们有权获得政府的财政援助。这次的价值非常小，正如我之前所说，因为每张选票只有一千卢比，相当于零点零一四美元，我猜是零点零一四美元。

根据我们的研究，我和政治学中心的朋友一起，我们进行了研究，我们与反腐败委员会合作进行研究，然后我们提出政府可以将政府援助提高到一万卢比，即每张选票0.14美元。因此，如果政府能够增加援助，政党将非常高兴。但是，在增加援助的同时，政党应该遵守一些...

规定。例如，他们必须有一个良好且结构化的会员招募流程。他们必须在其机构中实施定期培训。我们还建议他们必须遵守政党道德。也许我忘了提，我们已经进行了研究，其中一项研究是我们在制定政党道德。在这种情况下，我们正试图帮助政党拥有更好的招募流程和更好的...

社会化过程。因此，这就是我们所说的政治教育。所以，不是仅仅投票，而是深化成为政党成员的价值。不幸的是，我们没有将政党法翻译成英文。但稍后，如果我能找到一份，我会与您分享，与西亚和用户分享。所以，这是我对梅布布先生的回应。然后我可以问一个问题吗？是的，请。我只有一个问题，来自一位与会者。

来自与会者之一。好的，我们还有大约23分钟。您提到了监察员的作用。监察员将在您的国家如何参与审查或监督政党财务？伊兰，我也有一个问题。伊拉，因为您提到，直到现在，非政府组织在贵国监督政治党派财务的作用很薄弱。那么，是否有任何规定允许政党提交报告，进行资金...

披露所有活动？谢谢。如果我也能补充一点，我将首先请陈先生回答。陈先生，吴先生，您能否在回答问题时也谈谈台湾的选举委员会或选举管理机构有多弱或多强？它有多独立？如果您能谈谈这一点，因为他的问题是，我稍后也会问伊拉，为什么需要这么长时间，特别是对于...

马来西亚和巴基斯坦制定政治融资法，但为什么执行如此薄弱？是因为选举委员会薄弱，还是有其他原因？所以，首先是陈先生和吴先生，然后是伊拉，最后我会请梅布布先生回答巴基斯坦的问题。好的，谢谢提问。关于监察员的部分，因为台湾的政治结构，我们不只有三权，我们有五权政府。我们有行政...

立法、司法，我们还有监察院和另一个，审计院。监察院负责调查政府的不当行为。因此，竞选财务法由监察院监管。监察院有权，如果他们认为存在重大的政策失误，监察员可以调查此事。但对于注册或调查个人...

候选人的报告是否正确，我认为我们仍有改进的空间，因为这不是一个非常大的组织。我认为他们没有能力做好工作。我们确实有一个选举委员会，但它负责选举的运作。例如，决定日期、地点、投票站等。它不涉及竞选财务法。我认为这是好的，因为我们分离了...

权力，因为选举委员会属于行政部门，是其中一个部门。即使是由不同政党提名的，但它仍然可能受到政治影响。现在我们将权力赋予了一个独立的、平行的政府组织。我认为他们可以更好地履行其职能。我有一个问题想问伊拉。是的，请。我认为我可以一次性回答所有问题。是的，我有一个问题。您提到...

您没有限制外国捐款，是吗？即使有人从中国捐款？谢谢。请回答，伊拉，您现在有几个问题。好的，嗯，谢谢提问。所以，我先回答陈先生的问题。因为我们还没有规范政治融资的立法，所以目前实际上没有任何限制，任何人都可以向政党捐款，包括外国实体，包括中国。所以，我认为我们前总理纳吉布·拉扎克发生的事情实际上表明了我们制定这项限制的重要性。

因为他声称进入他个人银行账户的钱来自沙特阿拉伯的一个外国实体，他声称这笔钱实际上是用于竞选目的。根据现行法律，他可以被指控洗钱，但这并不违反政治融资规则。因此，他确实被指控犯有洗钱、欺诈等罪名，但不是因为政治融资目的，因为目前没有关于此的法律。其次，关于斯里·奥连泰关于政党是否有义务披露其活动和账户的问题。因此，马来西亚的政党在社会团体注册处（ROS）注册。这也不是理想的。公民社会提出的建议之一是改变政党的注册制度，因为...

社会团体注册处也处理马来西亚所有协会的注册。例如，如果您是一个社区篮球运动员协会，您也在同一个机构注册，即社会团体注册处。因此，这使得ROS很难监督政党治理和账户，因为政党自然是与普通社会团体截然不同的实体。

因此，建议之一是创建一个独立的机构来处理政党的注册，这将改善政党的问责制和透明度。因此，关于披露义务，目前没有向公众披露的义务。政党唯一有义务的是向社会团体注册处披露，而社会团体注册处本质上是一个政府实体。所以，他们必须做的是发布他们的审计账目并...

举行年度股东大会，并向ROS申报，但不对公众披露。因此，这也是该体系需要改革的另一个原因，以便公众能够获得更多的透明度和问责制，并确切地了解政党从何处获得资金。我也将回答其他问题，关于选举委员会或选举管理机构的独立性。在马来西亚，这过去也一直是个问题，因为我们有一个政党执政了60年。因此，选举委员会也损害了其独立性。在马来西亚，我们的宪法规定，选举委员会只能在一定年限内重新划分选区。我认为是五年或六年。因此，选举委员会曾有重新划分选区以适应当时执政的政党的历史。这种情况发生过，并且有来自公民社会的呼吁，要求提高选举委员会的独立性，并使选举委员的任命更加透明和基于绩效。是的，谢谢。非常感谢。梅布布先生，我们的一位与会者，尼兰詹·萨胡先生，他也是他和他所在的组织也是ADRN的成员。他的问题是，为什么政治融资法案的通过如此缓慢？是因为法律薄弱，还是监管机制薄弱？他还问了关于巴基斯坦选举委员会独立性的问题。我完全理解，尽管伊拉已经部分回答了这个问题，陈先生和吴先生也回答了，但这完全是另一个话题。在巴基斯坦，可能不像其他国家，比如印度尼西亚，政治融资法属于选举委员会的管辖范围。但总的来说，选举委员会的独立性问题可能需要...

召开年度全体大会，并向注册局申报，但不对公众公开。所以这是该制度需要改革的另一个原因，以便公众能够获得更多的透明度和问责制，并确切地知道政党从何处获得资金。我也会回答关于选举委员会的独立性以及选举管理机构的问题。在马来西亚，这在过去也是一个问题，因为我们曾有过

在亚洲民主国家进行另一次详细的对话，讨论这些机构的运作方式、有效性以及独立性。但请您简要回答，比拉尔先生。谢谢提问。但我认为这是一个误解，即巴基斯坦在通过政治融资法方面花费了很长时间。选举法2017年可能造成了误解。我们很早就有了法律，但我们在2017年决定将它们合并为一部《选举法》。

我们有关于政党的单独法律，关于处理选举本身的各种其他方面的政治融资的单独法律。因此，认为巴基斯坦的法律有所延迟是不正确的。我认为它只是在2017年被整合到一部法律书中。其次，回答您的问题，是的，巴基斯坦选举委员会是一个非常独立的机构。在此之前，回答您的问题，我仍然坚持认为我们有一些非常有效、健全的法律。

是法律薄弱还是监管机制薄弱？他还问了一个关于巴基斯坦选举委员会独立性的问题。我现在完全理解，尽管IRA已经部分回答了这个问题，Chin和Woo也回答了，但这完全是另一个话题。在巴基斯坦，也许不像其他国家，也许在印度尼西亚，这属于我们的政治融资法律，由选举委员会负责，但很大程度上，选举委员会的独立性问题可能需要

就亚洲民主国家这些机构的运作方式、有效性以及独立性展开更详细的对话。但如果你能简要回答，Bilal，谢谢你的提问。我认为这是一个误解，巴基斯坦花了很长时间才通过政治融资法。《2017年选举法》可能会造成这种误解。我们很早以前就有法律，但我们在2017年决定将它们整合到一部《选举法》中。

关于政治融资，我们可以做得更好，但我们有一些健全的法律。我们国家的一个主要问题是执行。不是法律本身薄弱，而是执行薄弱。这就是为什么我们认为选举委员会作为一个机构需要提高其能力。在选举的其他方面，他们已经大大提高了能力，但在政治融资方面，我认为这是一个被忽视的领域，他们需要在这方面努力。选举委员会是一个非常...

独立的实体。我们有幸通过两党协商任命选举委员，然后由议会委员会批准。所以我认为这是一项改进的法律。但我们确实有一些非常特殊的与选举有关的问题，有时可能会影响选举委员会的独立性。但正如西亚所说，这是一个完全不同的、非常广泛的话题，我们可以以后再讨论。哦，好吧，非常感谢您，梅布布先生。

您说得对，这只是我们正在讨论的政治融资问题的一个方面，但我们的选举机构或选举管理体系运作得有多好，就像我们的其他民主治理体系一样。ADRN不时会推出新的主题、新的问题和新的比较研究。尽管我们还有一点时间，我知道所有小组成员提出的问题以及我们从观众那里收到的所有问题都得到了回答。这无疑是一次非常有益且有趣的对话。对我个人来说，我可以代表所有小组成员说，讨论这四个国家各自的政治融资体系，它们之间有何不同，需要进行哪些改革，这非常有益。我认为我们将很快，每个国家都准备了论文。ADRN也将很快发布这些论文，以便提供更详细的分析。

可供受众和亚洲民主与研究网络成员使用。在我结束发言之前，我要感谢每一位小组成员。我想提醒观众，本次网络研讨会结束后将有一个弹出式调查，我们请求您在调查中发表您的意见，并就EI将发布的一些其他问题发表意见。因此，非常感谢马来西亚的Arazeri女士。听取马来西亚的现状以及您提出的一些非常重要的问题、担忧和改革领域非常有益。我认为我们许多人都能在自己的国家产生共鸣。非常感谢台湾的陈先生和吴先生分享台湾的案例，以及监察员的作用，当然还有选举管理机构的作用，这是我们需要在另一个领域讨论的。您有一个非常清晰的立场，即国家有一个...

回答了这个问题。这无疑是一次非常有益且有趣的谈话，对我个人而言是这样，我相信我也可以代表所有小组成员说，讨论这四个国家各自的政治融资体系、它们之间的差异以及需要进行改革的地方，非常有益。我想我们很快就会，每个国家都准备了文件，Adren很快也会发布这些文件，以便提供更详细的分析

供亚洲民主与研究网络（ADRN）的受众和成员阅读。在结束之前，我感谢每一位小组成员。我想提醒观众，本次网络研讨会结束后将有一个弹出式调查，我们恳请您对调查发表意见，并对EAI将要发布的一些其他问题发表意见。非常感谢马来西亚的Arazeri女士，听取马来西亚所处的阶段以及您强调的一些非常重要的问题、担忧和改革领域，我认为我们中的许多人都能在我们的国家产生共鸣。非常感谢Chin和Woo分享台湾的案例，以及监察员所扮演的角色，当然还有选举管理机构的角色，这是我们需要在另一个领域讨论的。非常有趣的是，贵国有一个非常明确的立场。

所处的阶段以及您强调的一些非常重要的问题、担忧和改革领域，我认为我们中的许多人都能在我们的国家产生共鸣。非常感谢Chin和Woo分享台湾的案例，以及监察员所扮演的角色，当然还有选举管理机构的角色，这是我们需要在另一个领域讨论的。非常有趣的是，贵国有一个非常明确的立场。

在外国资助方面，与巴基斯坦的情况非常相似，有着非常明确的法律立场。非常感谢努鲁蒂，感谢您对印度尼西亚政治财政体系以及印度尼西亚公民社会和公民希望引入的各种改革领域进行了非常精彩的分析。非常感谢马布布先生分享了巴基斯坦的案例，并强调这不是我们才刚刚开始的事情。

在2017年，我们已经有了这些法律，并且遵循了这些规定，但正是为了进一步改进这些法律的有效运作和实施，巴基斯坦才加入了争取建立一个更加透明、更加有效的政治财政制度的斗争。在此，我谨代表ADRN和EAI，非常感谢大家。我将在此告别。非常感谢。